Listen man I know I’m edging pretty close to “no true Scotsman,” but hear me out… it’s not that it wasn’t “true socialism,” but whether something is socialist economically isn’t necessarily tied to authoritarianism. Like, fuck tankies, but also I do think that combining market economics and truly representative democracy with proportional representation and freedom of speech and association with socialist ownership structures (as in the abolition of corporate governance from any input from, frankly, absentee “owners”) is the move. Socialism doesn’t have to be authoritarian, nor does it have to be against market economics. Ya know?
That’s true, but i don’t know if it’s fair to say that mandating employee ownership is anything other than socialist. Not Marxist, sure. Certainly leftist. But isn’t employee ownership and governance of the means of production, by definition, socialism?
Ah I see. I definitely have more learning to do than. In that case how is libertarian socialism socialism? Doesn’t that definition invalidate basically everything but vanguardism?
Oh I definitely think my position is more informed by anarchist traditions (eg, see my username lol) than socialist traditions, but it’s not exactly anarchism either. I’m never really sure what label to use tbh.
yeah I keep hearing how we’re a democracy but I’ve never felt it ever was. We have the technology to do a direct democracy but no one really wants to do it.
In that case we’d say “X can’t exist”, not “X is Y”. That’s the case for the word utopia, for example. Also non-state capitalism socialism exists and includes for instance the Paris Commune, anarchist Ukraine and for a surviving example Rojava.
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Listen man I know I’m edging pretty close to “no true Scotsman,” but hear me out… it’s not that it wasn’t “true socialism,” but whether something is socialist economically isn’t necessarily tied to authoritarianism. Like, fuck tankies, but also I do think that combining market economics and truly representative democracy with proportional representation and freedom of speech and association with socialist ownership structures (as in the abolition of corporate governance from any input from, frankly, absentee “owners”) is the move. Socialism doesn’t have to be authoritarian, nor does it have to be against market economics. Ya know?
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That’s true, but i don’t know if it’s fair to say that mandating employee ownership is anything other than socialist. Not Marxist, sure. Certainly leftist. But isn’t employee ownership and governance of the means of production, by definition, socialism?
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I think your argument might be more convincing if you actually mentioned these elements.
Other people had other definitions even before Marx, so I’m not sure why his should be the only valid definition.
Just my two cents.
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Ah I see. I definitely have more learning to do than. In that case how is libertarian socialism socialism? Doesn’t that definition invalidate basically everything but vanguardism?
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Oh I definitely think my position is more informed by anarchist traditions (eg, see my username lol) than socialist traditions, but it’s not exactly anarchism either. I’m never really sure what label to use tbh.
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I got a death threat from a tankie today because I suggested that Kamala would have not been as bad as the current administration.
That was fun, don’t worry I was banned shortly thereafter from that community
Accelerationism is a hell of a drug. You would have thought they would learn something from Weimar Germany, but no.
Was it that six-sided ursine one…?
yeah I keep hearing how we’re a democracy but I’ve never felt it ever was. We have the technology to do a direct democracy but no one really wants to do it.
I mean state capitalism is by definition not communism. This isn’t a no true Scotsman they’re just two different things.
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In that case we’d say “X can’t exist”, not “X is Y”. That’s the case for the word utopia, for example. Also non-state capitalism socialism exists and includes for instance the Paris Commune, anarchist Ukraine and for a surviving example Rojava.
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