Capitalism is all about using other people so that YOU can have an amazing quality of life. And even if you’re at the lower end of the economy in the US or Europe, your standard of living is propped up by third world labor, so really I strongly doubt that anyone here is in a position to say they’d be better off without capitalism. Most of the world, yes. Smartphone owning westerners: get real, colonizers.
This assumes that said smartphones can only feasibly be created the way they currently are, and no other way. Can you genuinely not imagine minerals being mined, electronics assembled, by well paid workers?
Thats not to say the current absurd rate would still be sustainable in such conditions, but i don’t think you can definitively say that losing capitalism would inevitably mean a decrease in living standards. A well managed transition to socialism could maintain much of our luxuries.
Where did I say most phones can never be fairly or sustainably produced? It’s almost like you’re replying to the wrong comment, because I never said I can’t imagine miners being well paid.
I happen to agree with the points you made. I was just describing the current conditions. I think that people at the lower end of the American economy believe they’re getting screwed by capitalism, when they don’t actually know what screwed is, or how they too are complicit in the same exploitation they cry out against, just with invisible foreign workers.
If we’re going to move beyond capitalism, we need to understand what we stand to gain and lose. I don’t think most do.
Capitalism as we have it absolutely favors westerners. Yes I’m saying that. How does that imply that I don’t think phones can ever be produced sustainably/fairly? Please explain the words you’re putting in my mouth.
Didn’t i just explain to you my thought process? I’m not putting words in your mouth, it just seemed that’s what you were getting at. Otherwise the smartphone reference seems totally random
Smartphones are made with cheap third world labor. Everyone in the US has one, even those of us supposedly getting so exploited by capitalism. Therefore, the smartphone is like a membership card in the “capitalist exploiters” club. Which I was saying we all belong to.
I know they’re made with cheap labour, that’s exactly what I talked about. Well if you weren’t saying socialism couldn’t make them, then whatever. Sorry I misunderstood. But I do think a well planned transition to a worldwide socialist economy could maintain our way of life, and introduce everyone else to it (should they desire)
Capitalism is all about using other people so that YOU can have an amazing quality of life. And even if you’re at the lower end of the economy in the US or Europe, your standard of living is propped up by third world labor, so really I strongly doubt that anyone here is in a position to say they’d be better off without capitalism. Most of the world, yes. Smartphone owning westerners: get real, colonizers.
This assumes that said smartphones can only feasibly be created the way they currently are, and no other way. Can you genuinely not imagine minerals being mined, electronics assembled, by well paid workers?
Thats not to say the current absurd rate would still be sustainable in such conditions, but i don’t think you can definitively say that losing capitalism would inevitably mean a decrease in living standards. A well managed transition to socialism could maintain much of our luxuries.
Where did I say most phones can never be fairly or sustainably produced? It’s almost like you’re replying to the wrong comment, because I never said I can’t imagine miners being well paid.
I happen to agree with the points you made. I was just describing the current conditions. I think that people at the lower end of the American economy believe they’re getting screwed by capitalism, when they don’t actually know what screwed is, or how they too are complicit in the same exploitation they cry out against, just with invisible foreign workers.
If we’re going to move beyond capitalism, we need to understand what we stand to gain and lose. I don’t think most do.
You implied that westerners would be much worse off without capitalism, and specifically referred to smartphones, seemed clear to me
Capitalism as we have it absolutely favors westerners. Yes I’m saying that. How does that imply that I don’t think phones can ever be produced sustainably/fairly? Please explain the words you’re putting in my mouth.
Didn’t i just explain to you my thought process? I’m not putting words in your mouth, it just seemed that’s what you were getting at. Otherwise the smartphone reference seems totally random
Insufficiently, I guess because I did not follow.
Smartphones are made with cheap third world labor. Everyone in the US has one, even those of us supposedly getting so exploited by capitalism. Therefore, the smartphone is like a membership card in the “capitalist exploiters” club. Which I was saying we all belong to.
I know they’re made with cheap labour, that’s exactly what I talked about. Well if you weren’t saying socialism couldn’t make them, then whatever. Sorry I misunderstood. But I do think a well planned transition to a worldwide socialist economy could maintain our way of life, and introduce everyone else to it (should they desire)
Id like to see that happen. I think it will involve changes for Americans which they won’t all like. But it will be good for us.