• Ghostalmedia
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    1 year ago

    Real talk - How will not paying convince conservatives to be for student debt forgiveness? They’re the ones blocking loan forgiveness, and this is a demographic of people that does lean toward them, so why would they listen?

    IMHO, showing up to vote is what would actually put the fear of god into these politicians. Not paying a loan will totally fuck up your ability to rent, get a credit card, get reasonable car insurance, and even get a job. Bad credit is no joke.

  • FartsWithAnAccent
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    561 year ago

    Can’t say I blame them at this point but the consequences of that are probably going to suck for them.

    • @TheHottub@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Paycheck to paycheck and your payment is more than you spend on groceries. And your loan has doubled in size because of interest. And will continue to grow. Meanwhile your credit is garbage and you can’t get ahead. Bad credit? Crappy car, needs fixes. Higher interest rate. I’m 41 and trying so hard to get ahead of it.

      At the very least cap the interest for people. Or how about no interest. You can’t chip away at something that’s growing faster than you can swing at it.

      • FartsWithAnAccent
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        121 year ago

        Best we can do is crippling debt in a dystopian shitscape to pay off the degree they lied to you about being able to get a good enough job to raise a family because you got that degree, taking on tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.

      • @RubberElectrons@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        I agree with you here. I’ve always said, if you’re putting in work to get an education, the interest on the loan should be zero. Yes, zero.

        Over time it means the lender (read: govt) loses money, so what. The increased tax income for an educated employee more than accounts for that. Even if it didn’t, what’s the downside to an educated workforce for anyone but those in power?

        Education should not be a for-profit scheme.

    • @init@lemmy.ml
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      191 year ago

      Counter argument–having bad credit is also meaningless if you can never afford to purchase something like a house, and you’re ok with purchasing used vehicles and renting from smaller landlords and not property management companies.

      • FartsWithAnAccent
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        171 year ago

        Credit is a fucking scam to begin with. It’s insane what companies like Equifax have gotten away with.

        • @init@lemmy.ml
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          111 year ago

          Wholeheartedly agree. And then we go around panicking about the authoritarian social credit shit China has. Mfer we’ve have social credit for decades

          • 【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】
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            1 year ago

            In my state all the lenders came to the legislature several years back and make a big push to try and come up with a new type of credit score that was primarily based on driving history. Apparently, driving history is like a way more accurate predictor of your credit worthiness than your financial history. So I guess my point is that they will scrape data anyway then can get it and use it to judge how much you have to pay to access money.

    • @Ookami38@sh.itjust.works
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      71 year ago

      The consequences already suck. It’s damned if you do damned if you don’t. At least I can keep (some of) my money this way.

  • @frickineh@lemmy.world
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    511 year ago

    Not very effective when they can just garnish your wages, your taxes, and your social security. I’m fully on the side that believes student loans desperately need reform, and Biden’s forgiveness plan getting shot down has definitely negatively impacted my life, but I’m not dealing with ruined credit and the stress that not paying causes when I know they’ll find a way to get their money unless I basically throw away my career to work cash jobs. That would impact my life way worse in the long run.

    • ReallyKinda
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      1 year ago

      Right now borrowers are incentivized to keep low income jobs and avoid settling down (they can’t buy houses anyway) which isn’t exactly excellent from a state perspective.

      • @frickineh@lemmy.world
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        171 year ago

        That kind of sounds like when people say that anyone on welfare could be doing better but chooses not to so they can keep their benefits. Of course there will always be people right on the cusp who determine that the little extra money they’d make by working more hours or trying to get a slightly better job won’t make up for what they’d lose (either in benefits or in savings from a lower student loan payment), but anyone who can afford to do significantly better generally tries to do that for a lot of reasons.

        • ReallyKinda
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          101 year ago

          Sure but right now you can essentially defer forever under 60k, 60k vs 120k I absolutely agree, but that usually happens in steps and $60k to $70k you might not see a benefit.

      • @skuzz@discuss.tchncs.de
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        61 year ago

        Not factoring in the borrowers that still have student loans from a decade or two or three ago and can’t just upend their now-established lives by halting payment. They’ll be forced to keep paying and keep that turd floating, not by choice, mind you.

  • @OpenStars@startrek.website
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    461 year ago

    I mean… right or wrong, FAAFO with banks does not sound fun, I hope they have an exit strategy like to live with someone else as they drop off the grid.:-|

    • @bhmnscmm@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      I agree. More power to them, but I’m way too risk adverse to personally stop paying. I genuinely hope they can induce some change. I guess that makes me a scab.

      I hope this debt is forgiven someday, but I don’t have enough faith in the powers that be to risk my future on it.

      • @OpenStars@startrek.website
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        41 year ago

        I mentioned to someone else replying at the same time as you did:

        Don’t beat yourself up - that’s the banks job.

        Like if someone scams you and you follow them to their house, break in and take your money back… you become the assailant at that point - e.g. if someone spots you, maybe not even the owner, and shoots you dead or whatever, then the fact that it’s their house is all that police are going to see and care about.

        Movies and TV shows about vigilantes are fun to watch but the reality is that it is quite dangerous. Right or wrong, they have the entire weight of society behind them.

        Find a way to resist that does not involve the likelihood of losing everything you have.:-)

    • Mario_Dies.wav
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      171 year ago

      Yeah, much as I’d like to participate, I’m scared into being a scab. Life is hard enough as it is.

      • @OpenStars@startrek.website
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        131 year ago

        Don’t beat yourself up - that’s the banks job.

        Like if someone scams you and you follow them to their house, break in and take your money back… you become the assailant at that point - e.g. if someone spots you, maybe not even the owner, and shoots you dead or whatever, then the fact that it’s their house is all that police are going to see and care about.

        Movies and TV shows about vigilantes are fun to watch but the reality is that it is quite dangerous. Right or wrong, they have the entire weight of society behind them.

        Find a way to resist that does not involve the likelihood of losing everything you have.:-)

        • @Donkter@lemmy.world
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          171 year ago

          What if they’ve built a system where peaceful resistance is encouraged but designed to be ineffective so the only way to resist effectively is to risk everything you have?

          • @OpenStars@startrek.website
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            11 year ago

            Then feel free to do so, bc at that point you know what you are risking, and more importantly what you are fighting for.

            The banks won’t really care either way ofc. But you will notice, and at the end of the day that’s what matters.:-) There are worse things to lose than merely your life - like your soul (center of being).

            Although… it wasn’t the banks who caused the colleges to scam students into getting loans. And most professors and staff at the colleges resisted the conversion into becoming for-profit - many (those who could) literally quit over it. The ones who caused that though have likely already cashed out and walked away.

            But even they weren’t the ones who changed our economy from being one that worked FOR the people into one that used people to build more wealth for the already obscenely wealthy, and in so doing not hiring people with college degrees. As so many documentaries (like Inequality For or All) explain, that was Reagan on behalf of Republicans who broke the backs of the unions, and everything since has only reinforced and strengthened those steps.

        • Mario_Dies.wav
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          41 year ago

          In this place where I live, even every act of compassion is a form of resistance

  • AutistoMephisto
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    251 year ago

    Reminder that student loans, like mortgages, are rolled up into an investment vehicle called the SLABS, or Student Loan Asset Backed Securities. Student Loan Forgiveness would tank the value of the SLABS, and I guarantee you our elected officials have money tied up in them. Since a student loan can’t be discharged through bankruptcy, it’s typically a very safe investment.

    • @argarath@lemmy.world
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      11 year ago

      It is absolutely HORRIBLE and immortal to have an investment that gains money of others being in debt. That is SO fucked up

      • Liz
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        41 year ago

        What… What do you think a loan fundamentally is?

      • AutistoMephisto
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        21 year ago

        It smacks of the subprime lending that caused the Great Recession all those years ago. History doesn’t repeat but it often rhymes.

      • prole
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        11 year ago

        Welcome to capitalism.

        Inb4 all the MBA nerds come to chime in about why making money off of someone else’s failure is a good thing…

    • @chiliedogg@lemmy.world
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      01 year ago

      Government student loans can’t be discharged.

      I got private student loans, and eventually stopped paying and they were discharged. The discharge counted as income on my taxes, but still way cheaper than paying criminal interest for 30 years.

  • db0
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    231 year ago

    Beene added that there are other options if you want to make your viewpoint on student debt forgiveness clear that don’t involve risking your financial future, like protesting and writing to your elected representatives.

    “But have you considered begging?”

    • @Ookami38@sh.itjust.works
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      91 year ago

      All of that relies on the belief that anyone with any significant student loans have a financial future. Most of us are so far up shit creek, give me that civil disobedience paddle.

    • AutistoMephisto
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      31 year ago

      And when you consider that the debts are packaged into an investment vehicle, there’s no fucking way they’re going to vote on student loan forgiveness. Don’t want the value of all those securities to tank.

  • @jamesmor0207@lemm.ee
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    221 year ago

    All these comments whining about how this will hurt credit scores, pay attention to the laws that we have currently. Student loan companies cannot take any action on unpaid loans for 1 year from the start of repayment. Interest still accrues but they cannot garish wages like all these morons are saying. That means for most, you don’t need to pay anything until after the next election. Use the only leverage we have and don’t pay back the loan for at least a year. Make them earn the vote and do something else to cancel these loans

  • @_number8_@lemmy.world
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    191 year ago

    hard af.

    can’t you all clown on them in the facebook comments? AKSCHUILLY the government will always win yeah no shit thanks

  • I was gonna do this, then my partner badgered me into it saying she wanted to buy a house someday, and my credit being crap would screw that up.

    • glomag
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      171 year ago

      Your partner wants to finance a house someday. I know I’m on the losing side of this battle but I really wish people would stop associating BUYING a house with taking out a LOAN from a bank.

      It just feels like people are only deceiving themselves by saying “I need good credit to buy a house” when what they really mean is “I need good credit so I can take on a lot of debt and pay out hundreds of thousands of dollars in interest over the next 30 years.”

      • Doubletwist
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        161 year ago

        One way or the other, you’re paying every month. Either it’s rent (paying for the landlord’s house, including taxes, insurance and interest), or you’re paying towards your own. The general populous has never really been able to buy a house outright. One way or another you’re mortgaging your time to spread out the time to either pay for a house, or pay for property and building your own.

        Yes, people have been going WAY to far into debt, pushing the size and prices of houses to unsustainable levels. Hell my mom grew up just fine with 5ppl (2 parents, 3 kids) in an 800sqft house (plus a tiny finished attic) with 1 bathroom. Nobody really needs 2500-4000sqft houses.

        But even if we go back to reasonably sized homes, in no realistic world are mortgages going away.

        The best you can hope for is to live as cheaply as possible to save up a large down payment (and emergency fund), and buy only as much house as you really need, for as little interest as you can manage, and then pay it off as quickly as you can.

        • glomag
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          1 year ago

          I’m not saying mortgages should completely go away. I’m sure a mortgage is the right decision for many people’s situations. It’s just the way that people talk about buying a house, a mortgage seems to be assumed. If it wasn’t just assumed then maybe people would put more thought into whether they want to save for a larger down payment (or the full price) or whether they want to pay $750,000 for a $400,000 house.
          I don’t know, maybe people see these numbers and think its a great deal. All I see is a bank making a huge amount of money from me that I would rather keep for myself. Also, if people stopped stretching their budget to the absolute limit with financing nonsense (3% down, variable rate loans, rate buydowns), in aggregate there would be less demand for houses at these high prices and sellers would have to start accepting lower offers.

      • @Signtist@lemm.ee
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        -21 year ago

        Eh, I bought a house in 2020 just before the pandemic hit, and by the time I sold it late last year it had appreciated in value enough to completely offset the money I’d put into the mortgage. Essentially I’d lived there for 3.5 years for free.

        • glomag
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          31 year ago

          Yes it sounds like everything worked out great for you. Good job on timing your investment! But this is a perfect example of the type of financialization of the housing market that I’m against. You used leverage to buy an expensive, risky asset and sold it for a profit just a few years later. This doesn’t always work out so well (ask anyone who bought a house in 2007) and I don’t want to put essentially all my savings into a wallstreetbets style gamble just so I can have somewhere to sleep at night.

          • @Signtist@lemm.ee
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            01 year ago

            I certainly don’t think that the housing market is a wallstreetbets style gamble. If you’re getting a loan that you can afford on a house that’s not falling apart, it’ll generally rise in value over time. The only reason my house didn’t appreciate even more in value is because it was a cheap house in a bad neighborhood, and I did nothing to improve it while I was there. My sister’s house doubled in value in a little over twice as long as I had mine, and she already paid off her mortgage in just 10 years, albeit due to near-fanatical saving and planning. Even through 2008 people’s values usually went up if they managed to hold onto the house for a few years - it was a rocky time to be getting into or out of the market, but if you just stayed put, you made it out on top in the end.

            I agree that it shouldn’t be necessary to finance a purchase that’s worth several times more than your annual salary, hoping that nothing too bad happens in the meantime before you can cash it out, but it’s still the best investment your average low/middle class person has access to, and it’s a hell of a lot better than spending a comparable amount of money on an apartment that you’ve got nothing to show for in the end.

      • Deceptichum
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        41 year ago

        In 30 years they’ll be able to afford a shack in the middle of the Texan wastelands once global warming desolates the place.

  • bean
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    131 year ago

    As someone who was bright-eyed and bushy tailed when I started college, I was not expecting that being a student was a constant bleed of money.

    The college partnered with some student loan vendor? and that vendor issued only a debit card which only worked on campus at specific ATMs. There was no apps for this shit. There was no bank withdrawal. Is was only the card and the ATM. They charged a fee for every use of it. So when I need to get that tuition money, I had to pay to get my money. It limits at 300$ so you’d have to repeatedly get charged to take multiple sums out. Tuition was exorbitant too. Didn’t include cafeteria or anything else. Books also out of pocket and 3-4 new ones each semester. We were also forced to pay ‘health fees’ for access to the newly built rec center, which you paid whether you ever stepped foot there or not.

    Look it’s one thing to have a ‘way about things’ but by this point it was more like an excuse to fleece us for everything we had and more.

    After 2.5 years of it I finally had to get a job on top of everything just to afford to be there. The job then took most of my time and it was not easy working around the school schedule. I finally had to quit school. What did I do? I stayed in my job because it was the only income source I had as a young person without a college degree and at least I was literally getting working experience.

    Tell me, who benefited here? You can argue it was me, but I have no degree in my hand. I have now almost 20,000$ on top of my original amount (40k) due to interest. I’ve always struggled to make ends meet and I’m essentially trapped with this debt. Is this really fair? I didn’t know the true consequence of these loans adding up. It was only after I got so far and saw how big a problem was growing that I had to bail. There was no way I could afford it. I was a kid, I was told I had to go to college and I had no choices in life unless I did that. So much pressure growing up.

  • @deegeese@sopuli.xyz
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    91 year ago

    Refusing to make payments on a debt that can never be repaid is smart.

    That guy wrecking his credit over $1200 is not.

  • noneya
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    91 year ago

    Pretty sure this “story” is sponsored by Sallie Mae.

    • ReallyKinda
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      121 year ago

      If so joke’s on them, they didn’t put the propaganda in the headline so this will just make more people boycott. And if it leads to financial ruin for 1 in 10 borrowers that just costs the taxpayers even more.

      • tryplot
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        11 year ago

        Sallie Mae is the company that owns the majority of student loans in the united states.

  • @whalebiologist@lemmy.world
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    61 year ago

    Students don’t even know who they owe money too. People “hear” biden wants to forgive some parts of some loans and immediately stop paying Sallie Mae/Navient/Whatever Private lender they ALSO owe money to in addition to the gov.

    The thing about student loans is nobody understands they have typically borrowed money from the government AND private lenders to pay for their degrees. You can borrow X$ from the government each year and coincidentally thats how much the schools charge. How lucky.

    This is all handled for them by college financial aid offices, all the kids have to do is show up to class, and the money keeps rolling. in. When told they can borrow more money than they need to cover costs to get funds disbursed to them directly for “educational expenses” like a new car and a ps5. Now I’m on a paid vacation for 4-6 years where I log in to my courses once a week to complete assignments by copying and pasting answers from google searches. If I somehow manage to become one of the 2% of college students that graduates from college I have 6 months to land a job and start paying it all back. Who knows how long it will take before I figure out that I am supposed to pay more than the minimum amount each month. If I am like most students I find myself in whatever office daycare job I can manage to land after dropping out of college because life as a “criminal justice major” falls short of my expectations. Or I just continue to change majors until the money runs out repeating a self-oblivious cycle of chasing greener pastures of career fulfillment.

    As unlikely as it is to graduate, it is even less likely that you can exit school with an understanding of how unerringly fucked you are if you dont pay down your debt and end up getting your credit obliterated by the private lender and your wages garn’d forever by the government lender. There is so much money locked up in education that this microscopic percentage of people who are actually paying anything back are enough to prop up the entire industry of higher education.

  • I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again: if you need your citizens to have a post-secondary education to keep your country humming along, MAKE IT AS EASY AS POSSIBLE FOR PEOPLE TO GET THE EDUCATION AND NOT BE BURDENED WITH BULLSHIT DEBT. FREE COLLEGE. FREE UNIVERSITY. FREE TRADES SCHOOL.

    • @TechAnon@lemm.ee
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      01 year ago

      It’s already free. Everything is on the Internet. We need employers to step up and put in their own tests, questions, etc instead of relying on degrees to create a pool of potential employees. Some places already do this.

      • prole
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        01 year ago

        We need employers to step up and put in their own tests, questions, etc instead of relying on degrees

        Oh yeah, let’s put control of post-secondary education into the hands of corporations. What could possibly go wrong?

        • @TechAnon@lemm.ee
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          01 year ago

          This doesn’t put education into the hands of corporations. It’s here already… on the internet. You can watch entire Standford or MIT courses for nothing right now.

            • @TechAnon@lemm.ee
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              01 year ago

              I learned new programming languages online using courses like those. I use them fairly consistently at work. I also went to a 4 year university prior to that. Learning online was both cheaper and faster. Also, a few university classes I took were 100% online. No difference except for cost.

              I test those that I hire now with real-world problems - all of which have college degrees due to company policy to limit which resumes I can see based on requirements. There’s a huge difference between these people - some don’t know anything and some are fairly well-versed. This standard education thing isn’t working.

              • queermunist she/her
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                -51 year ago

                Online lectures are a tool you can use to educate yourself; the lectures aren’t educating you.

                Education is an action done by a human being.

                • @TechAnon@lemm.ee
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                  01 year ago

                  If that’s your definition then it’s the same as college. Most courses I took had 200-300 students in a large auditorium where we just sat there a listened to the professor, took notes, read the book (that cost $300) and took a few tests. I also took a few online courses in obtaining my degree. Educating myself later was faster and more efficient.