San Francisco’s police union says a city bakery chain has a “bigoted” policy of not serving uniformed cops.
The San Francisco Police Officers Assn. wrote in a social media post last week that Reem’s California “will not serve anyone armed and in uniform” and that includes “members of the U.S. Military.” The union is demanding that the chain “own” its policy.
Reem’s says, however, its policy isn’t against serving armed police officers. It’s against allowing guns inside its businesses.
Last time I checked “Police Officer” wasn’t a protected class you little snowflakes.
veteran status is though in a lot of cases so I would not be surprised if there was movement to take it in that direction
Veterans can’t bring guns wherever they want either. There’s signs on every hospital in Ohio.
I wouldn’t be surprised if groups are already trying to spin stuff like that as anti veteran discrimination, although this article says “armed and in uniform” implying by that language they would serve an unarmed cop in uniform, so I guess they just have to ask everyone in uniform if they have a gun or install a metal detector if they actually want to enforce it
Or they could just guess and refuse to serve someone in a non-protected class as is their legal right.
yeah but if they want to do that they have to say “no cops” not “no cops who are currently carrying guns”
Why? They can refuse service to either. That’s 100% legal.
I’m sure the cops can find a way to sue them if they don’t have it explicitly written down or will show up just to intimidate them at anything lesser than being asked not to be there, but we’ll see
Put down the pipe, son.
They’re not banning veterans though, right? Just guns. Unless veterans are literally guns, but I know plenty of vets that don’t want open carry or unrestricted guns, so I’d say vets aren’t actually guns, and therefore aren’t restricted by this business’s policy.
It could be worse. This shop could react like police officers when someone enters a police station with a weapon.
I’d be surprised if Peter hasn’t used his fingers to count.
I do arithmetic on my fingers. :(
I can count to 10 normally. 20 if I take my shoes off. 22 if I pull my pants down.
Shouldn’t that be 23/24 if you pull your pants down?
Can’t do math without digits.
Good, normalize rejecting cops.
I’ve walked out of a restaurant when 4 cops rolled in.
Bring on the down votes but my opinion is this will only make things worse. I think people should judge the police on a officer to officer basis. I work in biblical service and the majority of cops are really decent people who are trying to help. There are always bad seeds. Even if a cop is on a power trip if you ask them they will help you.
In my opinion the biggest problem w the police isn’t the officers it’s the training and culture. They have their hands tied w ridiculous use of force policies and almost no training. But bring on the hate and call me a fascist.
It’s hard for me to judge them individually cop to cop because literally EVERY.SINGLE.ENCOUNTER I have EVER had with a cop has been a negative experience at best. Every single one. I’m not going to hate on you or call you fascist. Just pointing out it’s like saying I’ve never met THIS wasp before, maybe I shouldn’t judge it unless it stings me! Then surprise motherfucker you got stung, whodathunkit.
even if a cop is on a power trip if you ask them they will help you
Fucking bullshit, sorry but not sorry, but you’re delusional man. And I’m a 40yo professional white guy in the suburbs! My god, I can’t even imagine being black from the hood.
Watch some Police Audit videos. About one out of 10, a cop does something spectacularly good (or at least not horrible). Once, they even arrested another cop on the scene because the other cop crossed from “merely bullying” to outright criminal behavior.
The other 9 out of 10 are disgusting and disappointing. So your view of them sure isn’t far off reality.
Too little too late.
Not everyone lives in the US. I’ve been working with coppers my whole adult life and have had one bad experience. They’re good people.
Unless you think every cop is a nazi then you get downvoted to hell… feels like old Reddit… good to be home.
From one white suburban 40 year old to another I understand what you’re saying and as I said before I have met plenty of wasps. I guess what I am trying to get across is that blanket hate for cops isn’t the answer. It’s a very hard job that they are not trained to do and it does attract assholes. But every encounter I have with a cop I start out just being friendly and the majority of the time they are friendly back. Also well aware of my white 6’2” privilege when dealing with them.
But every encounter I have with a cop I start out just being friendly
white suburban 40 year old
Sounds like survivorship bias.
Hard to really have a conversation about it when this is how it goes every time.
White suburban 40 year old that works public service in mixed cities with large populations of poor black white and Latino communities so I don’t live in a bubble. Most cops I work alongside seem to treat decent people decently. Again there have been some bad apples but it’s a work in progress.
Again there have been some bad apples
Finish that phrase. Here, I’ll start it for you “A few bad apples ruin…”. Any time someone uses the phrase “a few bad apples” and then can’t point to where those bad apples have been purged with extreme prejudice, they’re just illustrating how broken things are and why police need to be abolished and replaced in-mass with a new police force that’s designed for actually helping people with proper checks in place to permanently and aggressively deal with those that abuse their positions.
The tradeoff for police getting special powers should be that when they use those powers to violate peoples rights, the weight of the law should come down on them like a ton of bricks. If a cop commits a crime, they should have a MINIMUM of 10 times the sentence a non-cop would get. Cop assaults someone and that’s normally 6 months in jail? Cop should get 5 years in jail. Cop murders someone and normally you’d get 5 years? Cop gets 50 years. If there were extremely harsh punishments cops would be a hell of a lot less likely to abuse their positions. You also need to fix the incestuous relationship between police and prosecutors. There should be an independent department purely dedicated to arresting and prosecuting police for crimes.
I like the idea of a new police force but what you are describing sounds like inanity. You had me until you make the punishments 10x the crime. What happens when someone make a honest mistake? Because they had a off day their lives are ruined. Even in this fantasy where the constitution no longer exists who would sign up for that job? You will have to pay $500k a year and have genius lawyer monks doing the job.
I think you’ve misunderstood what I meant. You are a white, suburban 40 year old. Your demographic does not get targeted with police brutality, so it’s no surprise that cops treat you well. It’s a form of bias called survivorship bias.
No I understood what you said and I agree with you. I am aware that I get treated differently. However I have noticed that a lot of the younger cops that I see interact with minority populations much better than older “salty” cops and they gives me hope. There are real assholes too, my hope is things get better. Because I see the cops treat scumbag white people the same way they treat scumbag black people.
You need to talk to some other people about their experiences with cops. I look like you, but i’m autistic, so I can’t act like you. Police constantly think i’m lying/hiding something/acting guilty because they’re taught to interpret the way I interact because of a developmental disorder as criminal behavior. Then, if they push us into a meltdown by intimidating the hell out of us, because they assume we’re criminals, we get beaten and arrested or shot.
You seriously need to think more about how your position in life and outward appearance actually affects the way the world interacts with you. Things aren’t just harder for some people. They’re completely different, and these institutions are supposed to exist for all of us. f you understood what it was like to interact with the police as an autistic man or a black man, you would not be defending the police.
That sucks man and I hate that that happens to you. I am not beating my chest for every cop but not all are animals and until people stop being awful to each other they are needed. I try to de escalate every scene I am on when I feel the cops are being assholes. Their job is almost impossible and unfortunately it attracts douche bags but also there are some great cops.
Unless and until they start following section 1983 of the federal code, as was written and passed by Congress not as was illegally revised in 1874 by one person that had no authority to do so, they are all criminals and deserve nothing but scorn.
This only applies to the thugs with badges in the US. It may not apply to your utopian police department.
So you won’t call them if someone steals your car or assaults you?
Hell no, that’s only going to make things worse. First police won’t do anything if something is stolen, so that’s just wasting your time. As for assaulting you, there’s a good chance that’s going to end up with the cop beating you up instead. You’re better off asking for help from some random passer by, there’s a better chance they’ll actually help. If my house is on fire I’ll call the fire department. If I’m having a medical emergency I’ll call an ambulance. If crime of some kind is happening you deal with it yourself because the cops will either do nothing or make it worse.
Yes seriously, only thing cops are good for is the paper trail for insurance. Call them while you’re being assaulted and they’ll probably just join in the fray.
You know every time I’ve had something stolen and filed a police report I have not even once had my stolen shit returned. They don’t even call back after weeks to say “hey we didn’t care enough to follow any leads, good luck”.
And yet they take every fucking chance they can to write my as many moving violations as possible, whether or not they apply.
The police don’t serve the people, never have.
That’s on the system not the individual officer.
Fuck the officer for going along with it. They can quit and find a different job that doesn’t make them out to be a piece of shit like the rest of us. Nobody forces them to become a cop, but by choosing to become one, they’ve branded themselves as part of that fucked up system. That’s on them. ACAB
Cool let’s not have cops
Considering studies show dollar-for-dollar we can effectively do what good police do by putting their budget money in other services (mental health, welfare, etc), I’m ok with having a LOT fewer cops with a lot more limited mandate.
So this way not only will petty crimes not get solved but the bigger crimes will also go unsolved.
Now you’re getting it
Even if a cop is on a power trip if you ask them they will help you.
I was with you until about here. I’ve seen cops shoo away people in need rather than even deign to give directions. I would say the majority I’ve seen have been very unhelpful and the encounters that have been nice or cordial have been the extreme minority. It’s like their default is power trip mode.
Correct.
Yea I was too broad there when I said that However in my own experience I have seen even SOME -asshole cops be helpful.
Yea I was too broad there when I said that However in my own experience I have seen even SOME -asshole cops be helpful.
I think that part of the problem with your response, not just biblical vs public service, is that it is a bias based on your own experience.
Like the rest of us, the police are overworked, and it is reasonable to expect that they feel pressure to act and do, not to take time to reason and consider. For an office worker, they might get angry and have a short fuse. For an officer, that might have dire consequences.
What purpose do the police serve? In my youth, they helped get baby kittens down from trees. The officer with the glowing smile would hand the kitten to the little girl who needed help. The highly legible and large typeface said “Cop gave cat.” Factual and warming.
This isn’t the interaction I usually have and it isn’t the interaction I’ve heard others have. Was Timmy and Suzy’s Big Day wrong? Consider the difference between The Andy Griffith Show and Dragnet. It’s a big difference when you know the people you are there to “Protect and Serve,” but reality is considerably different for most.
On the other side of things, you have folks that have been underprivileged from the crib. Social pressures indirectly, if not sometimes directly, perpetuate their plight. It instills anger and a general distrust.
Now mix those groups together.
Grouped by association is going to be the outcome unless people recognize their biases and actively try to work outside that. It means recognizing how your experience might not be shared amongst others. That’s all anyone is asking.
Yea man I typoed biblical it was supposed to be just public service I don’t believe in god or the Bible.
I work in biblical service and the majority of cops are really decent people who are trying to help.
Your inability to see your selection bias and account for it (while claiming to do just that) is beyond staggering.
Like… you’re saying the words, but then your overall takeaway proves that despite what you’re saying, you have no concept of reality beyond your own lived experience and world view.
I’m not in the ACAB/Defund camp either by any means, but you should either learn to truly acknowledge your bias (and not just pay it lip service), or just fucking own it and stop pretending to have a nuanced and enlightened opinion.
Like…don’t try to make yourself sound like you’re speaking from any sort of well reasoned position that accounts for the limitations of personal experience and acknowledges the experience of others. Just say, “Hey, the vast majority of cops I’ve interacted with, I’ve had no problem with. Therefore I think most cops everywhere are decent people and the tiny fraction that aren’t are just an unfortunate and unavoidable, but ultimately acceptable exception that is worth it in exchange for the services police forces as a whole provide for society.”
Because that’s literally what you’re saying.
You’re a white guy working and interacting with these cops in a religiously charged setting that already puts you in familiar and friendly territory with them in terms of ideology, race, and gender. These are three huge factors that are all coloring the interaction, and given the closely intertwined threads of American right wing politics with police, religion, race, and gender, every single interaction you’ve had with them benefits from being on their side in all the major categories that matter. With that frame of reference, you cannot possibly (at least while maintaining intellectual honesty) use your own personal experience as being at all broadly representative of that of the average person in the general public.
It’s like showing up to game day in the home team’s city wearing the home team’s colors and singing the home team’s fight song…and then the next day when you see a story about how many of those fans you met were harassing and assaulting fans of the other team, your response is, “Well I interacted with dozens of those fans and they were all really nice to me. Since I have real experience with them, that proves that they’re nice people who would never do those bad things. Must have just been 1% of bad apples. But overall, there’s no problem with bad fans since they were all nice to me.”
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Damn you sure are painting with a broad brush. I have been replying to a lot of comments so if you read this reply in another comment sorry. I agree that the police need reform and I agree that it attracts a lot of the wrong type of people. I think their training is lacking in use of force and de escalation tactics. I think they should have more than 2 hrs a year of grappling training and a lot of departments are moving in the right direction.
I am sorry you have only had dealings with asshole cops because I know a lot of really good ones. Have a great day.
Everyone knows a “good” cop. And every one of those good cops has covered up for a bad cop. Which, by default, means there are no “good” cops.
And then the corollary; Every so often, there’s a good cop that has stood up to their bad cop neighbors, calling them out publicly for evidence tampering and racial profiling. And then the union kicks them out - making them a good person, but no longer a good cop.
They do their own filtering. Hence ACAB.
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I agree with you there too the cops need another layer especially for behavioral or psychological calls. But that’s a training and budget issue. Also I have been to so many crisis intervention calls as a paramedic and was thankful the cops were there because they patted down the pt and they had either a gun or a knife on them. Every municipality is complaining about their budget so I wouldn’t hold your breath waiting for trained social workers thst want to respond to the shelter or nursing home at 4 am for the psych.
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How many of the “good cops” turn in the bad cops? Oh none you say… Well you might want to do a recount of good cops then.
Y’all remember when NYPD in its entirety said that old man fell during those protests a few years back?
Then videos got released.
Judging cops on a department by department basis saves paper ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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So you’re saying the system is broken? Well, that sounds like something we can agree on then. The police force is broken, needs to be torn down back to its foundations and rebuilt. Every time something happens with police you always get the same response “It’s just a few bad apples”, conveniently leaving out the rest of that phrase “that ruin the bunch”. Well, those bad apples have been left too long, and it ruined all of them. There are only two kinds of cops, the bad apples, and the ruined apples, both need to be thrown out. We need to abolish the current police and replace them with a uncorrupted version, the rot has set in too far in the existing police force, there’s no salvaging it.
When did I say none?
I work in biblical service
Oh. Ok. Anyway, moving on.
It’s a typo I meant to write public service but I have been responding so much I can’t even find the comment to edit it.
Well, that’s easily one of the most unfortunate typos you could have made here lmao
Lol no shit RIP my comment karma too, feels like Reddit.
In my opinion the biggest problem w the police isn’t the officers it’s the training and culture.
That’s sorta the point that people generally have issues with cops dude. It’s the overall culture of shielding of each other from consequences, stoking a “everyone is your enemy”/warrior mentality among officers, bad or lack of training leading to unneeded violent escalation etc.
It’s been police departments dragging their heels and throwing tantrums on addressing these issues that have what caused people’s dislike of them to grow.
I’ll throw my support behind cops who are standing up to the bullshit.
But they are usually fired (or worse), which means the people I’m supporting… aren’t cops anymore
Yea I have been saying that the entire time and getting downvoted to hell. My opinion is one of the big problems are cops don’t think of themselves as part of the community so by kicking them out of restaurants will only make them feel like less of a part of the community. I am done responding to these comments everyone seems to be a expert lawyer and city planner that has extensive experience dealing w the public.
I would say they don’t feel part of the community because they are the enforcement behind alienation under capitalism. If everyone has housing, security, fair trials, etc then people wouldn’t perceive them as part of an alienating force.
A good officer will have no problem respecting a bakery’s no-firearms policy.
It’s fine to have a different opinion and you shouldn’t be downvoted. If you’ve had that experience of them it’s perfectly valid. There’s just a lot of cops who are secret white supremacists who get outed routinely and that’s genuinely scary. Cops should get a lot more education than they do in the US.
I 100% agree I have met and delt with so many really shitty cops in my own time. Then factor in the 1% that are real monsters and I understand the way people feel. I train Jiu Jitsu with some amazing cops that are really trying to be better for their community and themselves. I am just defensive after reading all the comments.
Then factor in the 1% that are real monsters and I understand the way people feel.
https://sites.temple.edu/klugman/2020/07/20/do-40-of-police-families-experience-domestic-violence/
Again preaching to the choir over worked and riddled w PTSD obviously the result is domestic violence and other unsafe behaviors. I mean the 1% monsters like this fellow. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44402948
It’s only 1% when you ignore the domestic violence.
1% monsters like Jenkins 40% that beat their families can and should fuck themselves. I am referring to the corruption and actively destroying the communities they work in not just home life.
my opinion is this (rejecting cops) will only make things worse.
Giving them the benefit of the doubt because if you don’t they will punish you isn’t really giving them the benefit of the doubt, it is a backhanded acknowledgement that if they are not collectively appeased and given unwarranted grace, they will behave badly.
That’s not an argument that they’re not bullies, it sounds like an acknowledgement that they’re bullies and it would be better to appease them
In my opinion the biggest problem w the police isn’t the officers it’s the training and culture.
The biggest problem is the culture and a lack of accountability is part of the culture.
They have their hands tied w ridiculous use of force policies
You know why?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Empire_State_Building_shooting
Nine bystanders were wounded by stray bullets fired by the officers
After the amadou diallo shooting the NYPD knee jerk response was to increase the trigger pull pressure of their pistols so it would be harder to pull the trigger. So instead of better training and use of force tactics they just made it harder to shoot. And that in turn makes it easier to miss and hit bystanders. A perfect example of the terrible policy to breeds bad cops.
Ridiculous use of force policies serve the purpose of reducing departmental liability without spending money.
Even if it were a policy against serving cops, didn’t the Supreme Court literally just rule that a business can deny any group?
If you can refuse to serve gay people, you can refuse to serve cops. This shit goes both ways.
Yes because homosexuals could just leave their gay in their car amirite
Right… why do they have to exist in public… /s 🧐🤔😭
True, but court would claim the previous ruling was focused on contracted custom services and freedom of speech.
It would be pretty easy for them to craft an argument in favor of letting the cops in, as hypocritical as it may be.
this is what being conservative is all about. There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.
So then the Masterpiece Cake Shop ruling, maybe.
That one might apply better. Same outcome.
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Being gay and being a cop are not at all the same. One is a sexual orientation and one is a job. Cops chose their job.
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The point they made enhances yours. Yes it is hypocritical, but is arguably worse on the conservatives’ part since sexual orientation is something you’re born with.
Fowl: bird. Foul: bad.
Though I’ll assume auto correct.
Peace!
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Thanks for explaining - yes I misunderstood and thought you were saying that those who were mad a bakery refused to serve gay people shouldn’t try to ban anyone else from their own stores. Sorry about that and thanks for explaining!
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That just makes the hypocrisy even worse!
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I don’t think the police unions supported that bakery.
it’s about the guns, not the cops
Honestly would be cooler if it were about the cops
Ssshh. It definitely is wink
if you’re going to have policies that discriminate against one group of people, then own it, post it publicly,
…McCray said somehow without even a hint of irony.
It’s wholly within their rights to refuse service to anyone for any reason. I hope they stick to their… well, I guess “stick to their guns” doesn’t really work here but whatever.
If they are a public facing business, they are not within their rights to refuse service to anyone for any reason. There are protected classes, like age/race/sexuality. So if you own a business like a coffee shop, you can’t say “no black people.” However, police and guns are not protected classes, so I think they should be in the clear legally.
What happened to the supreme court cases that said it’s ok to discriminate against protected classes as long as it just so happens to be “against your religion”
“against your Christian religion”. Fixed that for you.
The Supreme Court decision was a very narrow decision based on how the commission treated the business owner, not a broad decision on free exercise vs protected class.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpiece_Cakeshop_v._Colorado_Civil_Rights_Commission
Also the distinction is “no uniforms, no guns” off duty police are still served. It’s actually a little closer to “no shoes, no shirt, no service”.
As listed in the article some of the employees and regular customers come from war-torn places or have histories of traumatic interactions with police. Hence the ban comes from a place of limiting PTSD reactions.
Unfortunately that isn’t true. Businesses have a right to refuse service for a wide variety of reasons. Like you said though those protected classes are illegal to discriminate against.
That is why you can have rules, like “no shirt no shoes no service”. So in this case it is if you bring a gun you will be asked to leave.
Although now if that store was ever a victim of a robbery I would bet the response time is very slow…
Although now if that store was ever a victim of a robbery I would bet the response time is very slow…
So you’re saying people who become cops aren’t interested in the public good and are more interested in power?
Well I never!
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“Stick to their buns” I guess?
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Hey now, cops aren’t all bad. I mean 60% of police wouldn’t be caught beating their wives.
“Reem’s has a deep commitment to uplifting social and racial justice in our communities,” the statement said. “This includes fostering an environment of safety for our staff and customers. In a time of increased gun violence — particularly impacting people of color, youth, and queer people — we believe that maintaining a strict policy of prohibiting guns in our restaurant keeps us safer.”
They don’t want guns on their property. It’s pretty simple. They have the right to restrict guns on their property.
Calling them ‘bigots’ and ‘discriminatory’ is disgusting, because those words mean hating people for inherent qualities that can’t be changed, like skin colour. You can leave your gun and uniform behind and poof you magically aren’t in the ‘discriminated’ group.
Black people can’t leave their skin in their car. See the difference? No? Then you might be a bigot.
e: anonymous downvoters, don’t be a pussy, reply please. That’s the whole point of this forum. Engage or gtfo.
“Sorry, we don’t support that lifestyle”
Thanks for the chuckle.
Even Aragorn and co had to leave their weapons to enter Edoras. Gandalf was a cheeky bugger though.
Aren’t police unions among those who back politicians that fight tooth and nail for businesses to adhere to their values? I should think that Reem’s would have their full-throated support for refusing service to those who offend their beliefs. I’m so confused.
/smh
Police in SF are showin up?
To eat in a bakery? Sure.
